Published on March 4, 2007 By Bushman In WinCustomize Talk
I've been a subscriber to WC since damn near the beginning (I've only been skinning for about 2.5 years) but after learning about yesterdays tragic loss of 3 skinners from this site and the way things were handled I've decided to not re-new my WC subscribtion any more and I will no longer support WC by adding any more skins. I am apalled at how Brad and others treated the skinners because of their beliefs. Now before anybody tries to make more of this than what I am saying,let me say it so it is very clear. I am not threating anybody with anything, I am just stating my intentions and reasons. I'm not saying if you don't do this I'll do that. I'm not making any requests, no demands, favors, nothing, at this point there is nothing that will change things. Brads actions/words and the actions/words of all those who followed his lead, plus I finally understand the rankings (Master, Journeyman et.), (here I thought they were given because of the work an indivdual did, now I understand that's only a small part of it),are my reasons.

Now if someone feels the need to bash me for my decision, save it, it just brings out the child in ya. I'm not asking to have my skins removed unless someone feels the need to do that, I can't stop you. I just ren-newed my subscribtion in Jan for the next 2 years so I expect all privileges my WC subscribtion allows, so don't go messing with me in that area or it will get legal (no threat, just a fact).

I didn't write this to argue with anybody about who is right or wrong. All I'm doing is expressing my decisions and why. This place has changed some for the good, some for the bad and unfortunately recently there's been more bad. This is a great website and it's helped many people to become great artists and it has been a pioneer in skinning so there's still hope that things will change around but there's a lot of work to be done.


Comments (Page 3)
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on Mar 04, 2007
I say we all break out our throbbers and have at it!




on Mar 04, 2007
on Mar 04, 2007

The difference is that we want a site where people feel free to discuss things they disagree with.

I do not, for instance, say "If you don't agree with me, I'll kick you off the site".  I say, disagree with me or anyone else all you want, just be civil about it.

Where I draw the line is when someone says they're leaving, removes their stuff but lingers around to rally support to them of those who were on the fence but will take the offended person's side in order to placate them.

Remember, in the offensive screenshot thread, there was a debate going on and then when people removed their work, people came on and said "It's not worth losing 'valuable' members of the site so just do what they want." That's not the kind of environment we want to have.

Do you see the difference? It's a very important distinction. We aren't kicking anyone off. All we have done is made sure those who say they're leaving and taking their stuff with them actually do. We want people to not make idle threats in order to "get their way". 

on Mar 05, 2007
I say, disagree with me or anyone else all you want, just be civil about it.


that's the better idea i have eared since two days.

on Mar 05, 2007
I never saw the thread in question so I really don't know what it was or what was seen.
To lose talent...anyone's talent...is a great loss to the community as a whole. I'd rather see what some have said...the "WC Family". Family,when you get right down to it, is everything to most people. I joined because I wish to be a part of something spectacular and this site, these people, artists all, are just that...bar none. Please
don't allow this to divide you. It would be a damn shame to see.
on Mar 05, 2007

To lose talent...anyone's talent...is a great loss to the community as a whole.

Guys/gals, that only applies when the 'talent' mentioned is not/has not voiced intent to depart, or threats to do so.

IF a person truly considers Wincustomize 'HOME', or a valued/wanted community place-to-be then the LAST thing they would be likely to do is consider leaving/unsubscribing/lapsing/removing works/whatever.

Those who DO value the WC skinning community will stay, no matter what happens or to whom it does.

"'tragic' loss of 3 skinners" is somewhat emotive.  Willingness to leave [whatever the reason] shows a true indication of the degree of community-minded commitment, or lack there-of.

'tragic' would be better replaced by 'avoidable' - as all that was/is needed is an understanding that pressuring others, old or new to conform to a specific way/opinion through threat and/or insult is not tolerated.

on Mar 05, 2007
Well said, Jafo.

What gets me, is how these people had such a big head, that they thought "removing thier skins" could be used as "leverage" to get thier way.
Sorry, to me if you want to play that card, it's time for you to leave anyways.
on Mar 05, 2007
correct me if i'm wrong but i don't believe anyone was "forced to leave", "told to leave",  or "kicked out". i think they left on their own.
on Mar 05, 2007

I think we need a tutorial on using the tools, etc. in the forums to prevent the issues we have seen recently (reporting rips, requesting removal of questioned posts, and other issues).

on Mar 05, 2007
Well I finally got the email part working and I email Brad personally and now it's up to him.
It's amazing how only one person actually understood my message w/o adding things to it.

Guys/gals, that only applies when the 'talent' mentioned is not/has not voiced intent to depart, or threats to do so.

IF a person truly considers Wincustomize 'HOME', or a valued/wanted community place-to-be then the LAST thing they would be likely to do is consider leaving/unsubscribing/lapsing/removing works/whatever.

Those who DO value the WC skinning community will stay, no matter what happens or to whom it does.

"'tragic' loss of 3 skinners" is somewhat emotive. Willingness to leave [whatever the reason] shows a true indication of the degree of community-minded commitment, or lack there-of.

'tragic' would be better replaced by 'avoidable' - as all that was/is needed is an understanding that pressuring others, old or new to conform to a specific way/opinion through threat and/or insult is not tolerated.


This is just plain wrong Jafo, I will not sit back and let anybody do what they want here or any place else for that matter. Maybe that's how you do things but not me.

For others, I have talked about this before but it fell on deaf ears. This is not just a business you're dealing with real live human beings here, not just a screen with a pic or writting on it. Web Gizmo was right, this whole thing should have been handled via email on all sides but not everything works right on this site yet. It took me two days to get mine to work so I could email Brad myself. When the owner of a site takes to writting a thread to bash others for their beliefs instead of emailing the person(s) directly as is warranted, something's wrong. Now that I've been able to email Brad this thread is done for me.
Remember folks this is a community where people should have the right to object to things w/o being bashed for it.

on Mar 05, 2007
What gets me, is how these people had such a big head, that they thought "removing thier skins" could be used as "leverage" to get thier way.
Sorry, to me if you want to play that card, it's time for you to leave anyways.


What "people" are you talking about. At no time in the original thread did Boopish mention removing her skins, she did it quietly and without any threats whatsoever. Bushman has not mentioned anything about removing his skins and has made no threats.

Why do some of you "people" continue to twist the facts around.
on Mar 05, 2007
I was commenting to what Jafo said.
"People" doesn't automatically translate into (Boopish or Bushman). I was referring to the "elitist people" from when Wincustomize opened (way, way back in the day) up to now.

Please read the whole thread before putting words in people's mouths....
on Mar 05, 2007

Web Gizmo was right, this whole thing should have been handled via email on all sides

Once complaint comments are posted on an upload the issue is unfortunately already public.  The fault was with the complainant/s.

That leaves two options...delete the comment [accusations of censorship and stifling opinion] and go to email....or respond publicly, avoiding censure but being left with potential for flaming.

The latter occurred through escalation of disdain directed towards the uploader, [rather than an actual mature debate about the validity of a particular image being uploaded].

It's this public pressure-tactic used by some to impose THEIR values upon other members that needed to stop....

 

on Mar 05, 2007
Drama drama drama. Call the cable company and order the Soap channel. That should fill the daily quota without posting more here.
on Mar 05, 2007
I was commenting to what Jafo said.
"People" doesn't automatically translate into (Boopish or Bushman). I was referring to the "elitist people" from when Wincustomize opened (way, way back in the day) up to now.

Please read the whole thread before putting words in people's mouths....


Maybe you should quote to what you're replying to so as to avoid any misunderstanding.
As to putting words in your mouth, there's not much room while your foots in it.
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