Protest

Published on March 4, 2007 By Bushman In WinCustomize Talk

I've been a subscriber to WC since damn near the beginning (I've only been skinning for about 2.5 years) but after learning about yesterdays tragic loss of 3 skinners from this site and the way things were handled I've decided to not re-new my WC subscribtion any more and I will no longer support WC by adding any more skins. I am apalled at how Brad and others treated the skinners because of their beliefs. Now before anybody tries to make more of this than what I am saying,let me say it so it is very clear. I am not threating anybody with anything, I am just stating my intentions and reasons. I'm not saying if you don't do this I'll do that. I'm not making any requests, no demands, favors, nothing, at this point there is nothing that will change things. Brads actions/words and the actions/words of all those who followed his lead, plus I finally understand the rankings (Master, Journeyman et.), (here I thought they were given because of the work an indivdual did, now I understand that's only a small part of it),are my reasons.

Now if someone feels the need to bash me for my decision, save it, it just brings out the child in ya. I'm not asking to have my skins removed unless someone feels the need to do that, I can't stop you. I just ren-newed my subscribtion in Jan for the next 2 years so I expect all privileges my WC subscribtion allows, so don't go messing with me in that area or it will get legal (no threat, just a fact).

I didn't write this to argue with anybody about who is right or wrong. All I'm doing is expressing my decisions and why. This place has changed some for the good, some for the bad and unfortunately recently there's been more bad. This is a great website and it's helped many people to become great artists and it has been a pioneer in skinning so there's still hope that things will change around but there's a lot of work to be done.

Comments (Page 7)

NightTrainthedark

on Mar 07, 2007

Noone is irreplaceable. My boss reminds me of this all the time.

scorpNZ

on Mar 07, 2007

Well if your all finished i'll end with

And so concludes another series in days of our lives

vStyler

on Mar 07, 2007

Noone is irreplaceable. My boss reminds me of this all the time.

your good for 5 laughs a day at least.

Im hoping to increase my "community potency" enough to warrant a WIP THREAD

Jafo

on Mar 07, 2007

I had thought that people would realize this more after the Jark incident happened on deviantART. In that case, the site removed the founder of the site -- literally fired him. For a couple of months, there was some angst over it. But now, a year or so later, it's as if it never happened.

I doubt I'll ever forget. It's a sober reminder that life isn't always fair, on several different levels....

Phoon

on Mar 07, 2007

when a skinner removes their stuff or leaves or whatever they essentially diminish their own potency in that community.

The best way to achieve change are through positive deeds.

through that, change occurs because, assuming the people who run the site aren't monsters, they want to make the user community happy.

Ok Igor

,
Here's just an idea.
You made your policy of banishment (reduction to vistor status) AFTER the fact, with no advanced warning of the consequences going forward.
Wouldn't it be less monstrous and a positive deed to give the 3 a final second chance?
Even if they don't put their work back up, at least you have given them the option to do that should they choose. The policy going forward (from the time you announced it)is carved in stone. I agree with the policy and it may help future incidents.

vStyler

on Mar 07, 2007

Wouldn't it be less monstrous and a positive deed to give the 3 a final second chance?

waits patiently for hell to freeze over*

Fairyy~

on Mar 09, 2007

Frogboy: The best way to achieve change are through positive deeds. If someone feels that I or someone else on staff at the site did something wrong then speak up on it. If others agree with you, they too will speak up. And through that, change occurs because, assuming the people who run the site aren't monsters, they want to make the user community happy.

All I ask is for clear rules - rules for everyone , not just for that day.

You made your policy of banishment (reduction to vistor status) AFTER the fact, with no advanced warning of the consequences going forward.

That is the one thing that bothered me. You said in your post when you first returned you wanted a kinder forum where people will be helped and not dismissed if they are a bit abrupt or rude....had you said " Anyone that says Im taking my skins because Im mad or I don't like the ratings or Im protesting...they will be banished.

Then the punishment would have been cut and dry. There would be no recourse.

I have no problem with rules as long as I know ahead of time what they are..

Fairyy~

on Mar 09, 2007

.SydneySiders: an aussie never passes up the chance to have a bit of fun with a kiwi (and visa versa).

PS: BTW, your not bad for an aussie girl

Frogboy

on Mar 09, 2007

You made your policy of banishment (reduction to vistor status) AFTER the fact, with no advanced warning of the consequences going forward.
Wouldn't it be less monstrous and a positive deed to give the 3 a final second chance?
Even if they don't put their work back up, at least you have given them the option to do that should they choose. The policy going forward (from the time you announced it)is carved in stone. I agree with the policy and it may help future incidents.

Let's be real here:

#1 CL Woods personally attacked a new member of the site because she decided on her own that his screeenshot was unacceptable. The words "pedophile" were thrown around because she felt a screenshot of a desktop who had a wallpaper of a girl in a swimsuit who looked sexy and too young (in her opinion) warranted that.

That is a clear violation of WC rules. Calling people perverts and pedophiles and what not are pretty serious. It's actually libelous.

#2 The people who were put to visitor were people who said they were leaving. They weren't exiled. They were put to visitor so that they could no longer post anymore. I simply made sure they made good on their threat.

Because I don't think they had any intention of leaving. I believe they were playing the WC game of "Do as I command you to do" in which the player removes their work, threatens to leave, and fans then say things like "This isn't worth losing a 'valuable' member of the site, just do what she wants" and then everyone hugs and the work is restored.

If CL Woods didn't have a deviantART account, I might have taken her more seriously. But she does and to me, that meant her threat wasn't serious. She simply believed she should have her way here.

#3 If someone wants to contact Zoomba and make their case that they will not engage in the above 2 types of behavior, we are prepared to listen to it.

But regardless, the days of people bullying other people are over around here. I've seen it in the forums for a long time. And I know another thing - I've received literally dozens of emails from long-time users who had become lurkers who absolutely agreed with what I did and said they had stopped participating because the forums had become "oppressive" and "cliquey". Even now, the forums are starting to get some life back to them. But it will be a long road.

Having read things like Cl wood's journal on deviantART, I am confident that we did the right thing.

I wouldn't think this was necessary to point things out but you will note that not a single person here has accused those who disagree with me a "zombie" or other degrading name.

We support your right to have your own opinions and to disagree and we support other people having the right to disagree with you in return. We don't dehumanize people because of their opinions. People who are in their "Best behavior" mode that still manage to accuse those that don't agree with them as being "unthinking zombies" are not the kind of people we want being active in our forums.

I think the worst that was said of those who were forced to not return was that they were "bullies" which, if someone else can provide a better term for someone who uses intimidation and insults and coercion in order to achieve their objective then I'm open to it.

But I'm pretty comfortable being on the side that thinks people have the right to have their opinion and that those who disagree with me do so out of principle and have their own legitimate world view (as opposed to dismissing them as mindless zombies incapable).

100

Phoon

on Mar 09, 2007

I've received literally dozens of emails from long-time users who had become lurkers who absolutely agreed with what I did and said they had stopped participating because the forums had become "oppressive" and "cliquey

The forums have been that way for years. The only thing that has changed are the cliques.

I just had to throw my 1.5 cents into this. You've made your point. I agree with most of what you said with the exception of a couple little bits. They aren't worth getting into though. So... carry on with the experiments Dr. Frogenstein

101

Jafo

on Mar 09, 2007

carry on with the experiments Dr. Frogenstein

That's what you get for too many references to 'zombies'...

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